Posts by Phantom Stranger

29

Would a Good God Really Create a Place Called HELL?

by Blueblades in

jw
friends

i have read a number of different materials on this subject,doctrine,teaching,topic and still can't reconcile that a good god would really create a place called hell.

jeremiah 7:31and 19:5 and they have built the high places of tophet,which is in the valley of the son of hinnom,to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire,which i did not command ,nor did it come into my heart.

if burning of sons and daughters never came into god's heart, and god is good and loving,why the teaching of a burning hell-fire as eternal punishment for most of mankind who have no idea about this or the so-called way out of this hell?

Phantom Stranger

I thought hel was a root cellar in Norway??

86

(((((Group Hug)))))

by LittleToe in

jw
friends

there's been too much volatile stuff going around, and a few folks appear tetchy.. can we drop any issues, and just enjoy a ((((group hug)))) for a moment.... ((((hugs to everyone)))).

love you guys.

coz regardless of the ups and downs, this place is a little like the family i lost.... sometimes i need to take a step back, have a break and some quiet time, but that's ok, too.. every blessing to everyone,.

Phantom Stranger

Uh...this sort of thing's not my bag, baby.

Oh, all right.

15

Any fan of Food Network?

by sunshineToo in

jw
friends

i love most of their shows especially 30 -min.

meal, tyler's ultimate, food 911 and goodeats, and not to mention all the competitions and iron chef.

i'm learning a lot.

Phantom Stranger

My favorite show used to be "Iron Chef".

33

Do you believe in free will?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

.

do you believe in free will?and if you do can you explain how it works?.

i can't see how free will could work.our motivation for doing things good or bad seems to come from a mixture of genes and enviroment, and through a long and complicted process cause us to perform all the actions we experience in life.when we feel a prompting to do something ,eat sleep have sex etc, this is accomplished by our body using chemicals in our bodies to give us a feeling that we then act upon.the degree to which these chemicals prompt us is related to genetic makeup and environment.. so some people have a bigger desire to eat than others because they lack the chemical stimulation that tells them to stop eating.or some will eat less (often when ill) because the chemicals that prompt you to eat are lacking.in normal life lots of over factors will be involved to like say an important phonecall at lunch time .if your brain feels the information from that call is important enough it will send out different chemicals that will cause you to attend to that situation first if serious enought.. knowledge can modify how our bodies react to certain situations, for example a child may see an icecream van and run into the road because his body has yet to learn of the danger of running into a road.when taught how foolish this by a nasty experience or hopefully , taught about the dangers by its parents, then the body will send out a meesage to look at the road first.. our bodies tell us which ideas are good and bad according to the information it holds and we react accordingly.we can fight desires but the will to do so is caused by other desires which are prompted by the body.. to have true free will neither our genes or enviroment could effect what we decide to do.. we have to be able to do things irespective of what promting we recive from our bodies or what information we have learnt and has thus modified our bodies response.. maybe there are but i can not think of any situation where or actions or reactions can not be explianed by genes mixed with environment (often in a very complicated way).nor can i understand how free will could work,unless free will is just a random action which could not be free will in the true sense.. if there is no free will then if there were a god and we are judged on what we do then this is entirely unfair as we really have little say in what we do in life.

Phantom Stranger

Just seems like you're focusing on the negative, that's all.

Gravity constrains me, but it doesn't seem to change the discussion ;)

30

IMPORTANT: No more politics, soapboxes and whinging.

by Simon in

it seems that politics are once more taking over the board.. when things are discussed properly it's not a problem but alas, it seems some can't help but start throwing insults and labels around.

i keep reading about "you left wing communist loving liberals" and "right wing facists" and really, it's getting very tiresome.. can i suggest we tone it down please.

think before you post and don't be surprised if you include insults in your post that it will just be deleted.. also, unless you are interested in having a discussion and hearing opposing points of view without getting all pissy about it then don't post !

Phantom Stranger

I found this in a course description on responsible communication, and it seems to apply to what's going on at the moment.

"To a great extent, your professional effectiveness depends on your capacity to interact with other people - patients, clients, colleagues, and supervisors...We will concentrate on ways to replace making judgments with strong listening and understanding skills."

It's been said that there are three ways to listen to others, but only one can result in learning anything:

1) Agree with (head nods). The implication here is "I already knew that".

2) Disagree with (head shakes). The implication here is "I already knew that.

3) Be with the speaker. Let go of judgement, listen with your whole being, let go of the knee-jerk reaction and the judgemental conversation in your head, and just listen. This is the only one that can result in learning.

Too many of us (myself included) have been stuck in 1) and 2). If we work consciously on getting to #3, we might learn something.

3

Night dream

by logansrun in

.

can there be any doubt that the most gratifying feeling in the world is sipping a frigid martini by candlelight with your arms encircled around your lady's tight, tiny waist?

bradley

Phantom Stranger

You lost me at the martini, Bradley - the face I make when I drink those precludes the rest of it.

49

Reasons Why We Like or Love Jehovahs-Witness Discussion

by minimus in

jw
friends

every once in a while we get disturbed or annoyed over something that takes place here.

for a change, let's express reasons why we're happy to be here.......i'll give one reason amongst many.

there are so many enlightening posters here!

Phantom Stranger

OMG, Bradley, now my sides hurt.

Nice post, minimus.

I like to be reminded that my childhood experiences, while surreal, are not unique - that a lot of people are dealing with the things that I have dealt with and still do deal with.
I've been out a long time (not as long as some, but almost 20 years) and I've missed some of the recent doctrinal developments - they are amusing to read about. I also tell myself that possibly someone else can benefit from something I have encountered on my long strange trip.
Of course, reading about Dave's trip to Bethel is worth anything! (Dave, I think I live less than a mile from the condo you mention in Part 6! Was it near Macadam?)
I've been experienceing writer's block lately on my own projects, and I find posting here is a great way to get out of it!
It does my heart good to see so many people reaching out and growing and changing... keeps me from feeling complacent, makes me challenge myself to get out and stretch.

6

Emergence from the WTS - suggestions

by Phantom Stranger in

i speak as a "raised-in-the-jws" adult, out for almost 20 years.

i am writing this post in the earnes hope that someone emerging from the jw's can benefit from some small part of my experience (not because i think i know the only right way to leave...).

one of our big inhibitions against leaving is the fear of losing all of one's support network.

Phantom Stranger

I speak as a "raised-in-the-JWs" adult, out for almost 20 years. I am writing this post in the earnes hope that someone emerging from the JW's can benefit from some small part of my experience (not because I think I know the only right way to leave...)

One of our big inhibitions against leaving is the fear of losing all of one's support network. This is frightening and rightly so - humans need support from others.

Many here seem to use the board as a primary support for dealing with the trauma of leaving. It's wonderful to have such a valuable resource available (and many thanks to those that provide it). I want to caution against using a board like this, or boards in general, as your only or near-only support for dealing with this huge change of life into a new person. This board can give people the strength and confidence to step forward and start to grow out of the WTS... and I fear for many of us it can't be quite enough.

Below are some actions that have been invaluable to me over the years - one hopes they can be valuable to some of you. Some of them took me years to start - I hope that some of you can benefit from them sooner than I did - let's find out.

A good therapist (preferably one that does not serve only "cult" issues... just a regular therapist is fine, really.If you have other issues, such as abuse, seek out someone that specializes in that.) You are not working on becoming a former JW, you are working on becoming a functional adult out in the world - the real world. You may think you already are one... but you're probably not. Commit to this for a good while - Rome wasn't rebuilt in a day.

Go listen to new ideas (notice our urge to judge the new ideas comes up reflexively. Let it go...). If you have a large bookstore in the area, go listen to authors talk about their work. Go to seminars (you have lots of free time now!) Take one or two classes, seminars, or the like. Watch how other people behave. If you answered a lot at meetings, do not answer a lot here - sit back and watch. If you didn't answer a lot at meetings, go for it here! I highly recommend taking a yoga class - JW's seem to be some of the most physically uptight people on the planet, so stretching is good (Yoga has become so mainstream that there are many classes out there now that are light on the "woo-woo"). Paying attention to your relaxation is very valuable, and exposing yourself to creativity is also very valuable - many of us have suppressed this creative spark for a long time.

Let go. Avoid making a crusade against the WTS your new life. Mother Teresa never engaged in an antiwar protest because she didn't believe in action against things, only for things. So decide what you want to be for, and act towards it. Be the change you want to see in the world. If you want the world to be safer for children, work towards that. If you want more people to lead happy fulfiled lives, find ways to help people (including yourself) be happy and fulfilled. And on that note...

Create a new relationship with money. Many of us have issues around money, and many of us get into a subsistence rut even after leaving the WTS. Read some books - Suz Orman's first book is excellent, and is the first book I've read to take into account how our childhood expereinces shape our feelings towards money. http://www.suzeorman.com/books_9steps.asp .

Slowly form your plan, but keep forming your plan. So many of us staggered from meeting to meeting and from paycheck to paycheck that we never looked down the road - and no one told us to, of course. It will take some time to develop a plan for this stage in your life, if you don't have one...but one thing that was a big surprise for me was how I had been trainined to not set goals. So set lots of them, often, and build momentum - so you can experience how powerful you are (many of use were trained to feel as if we had no power, and gave it to the organization.) Write down your goals and plans, and share them with others, share them here! (we could certainly use the positive vibes!)

I hope some of this is valuable to someone... best wishes on all your journeys.

PS

33

Do you believe in free will?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

.

do you believe in free will?and if you do can you explain how it works?.

i can't see how free will could work.our motivation for doing things good or bad seems to come from a mixture of genes and enviroment, and through a long and complicted process cause us to perform all the actions we experience in life.when we feel a prompting to do something ,eat sleep have sex etc, this is accomplished by our body using chemicals in our bodies to give us a feeling that we then act upon.the degree to which these chemicals prompt us is related to genetic makeup and environment.. so some people have a bigger desire to eat than others because they lack the chemical stimulation that tells them to stop eating.or some will eat less (often when ill) because the chemicals that prompt you to eat are lacking.in normal life lots of over factors will be involved to like say an important phonecall at lunch time .if your brain feels the information from that call is important enough it will send out different chemicals that will cause you to attend to that situation first if serious enought.. knowledge can modify how our bodies react to certain situations, for example a child may see an icecream van and run into the road because his body has yet to learn of the danger of running into a road.when taught how foolish this by a nasty experience or hopefully , taught about the dangers by its parents, then the body will send out a meesage to look at the road first.. our bodies tell us which ideas are good and bad according to the information it holds and we react accordingly.we can fight desires but the will to do so is caused by other desires which are prompted by the body.. to have true free will neither our genes or enviroment could effect what we decide to do.. we have to be able to do things irespective of what promting we recive from our bodies or what information we have learnt and has thus modified our bodies response.. maybe there are but i can not think of any situation where or actions or reactions can not be explianed by genes mixed with environment (often in a very complicated way).nor can i understand how free will could work,unless free will is just a random action which could not be free will in the true sense.. if there is no free will then if there were a god and we are judged on what we do then this is entirely unfair as we really have little say in what we do in life.

Phantom Stranger

why view them as constraints?

It may not be possible, given that fact that I'm nearing 40 and not a fast runner, that I could not get a job as a professional soccer player. But I still have lots of opportunity.

It's kind of like saying a fish has constrained will because it can't walk, isn't it?

65

Breaking up is Hard to Do......

by tyydyy in

i have been dating this woman for two months.

i somehow agreed to being monogamus with her....the details aren't important..but here i am stuck in a relationship that daily grows more unbearable.

i have been trying to get the nerve to end it for the last 6 weeks...lol well it's true.

Phantom Stranger

Look... the cheating is not why you want out.

You just want out.

You owe her some explanation... but you don't owe her a pain-free life, so don't take that on.

It's not working for you...that's enough, you don't need to construct a huge story to make yourself feel better about it - if it's not working, leave it.

Best of luck,

PS